John Henry, where's your trousers?
Apr. 29th, 2010 04:38 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
roxybisquaintYou guys already know that I don't think John Henry time-jumped. I think he used Cameron's chip (or repaired and used the water cooler terminator's chip) and left Zeira Corp to go find his AI brother in present day. This post isn't really about that theory, though. This time, I'm just analyzing the situation.
"You can't bring anything through when you come—not weapons, not clothing, nothing."
If John Henry did jump, where is his clothing? It should've been in a pile on the floor, but it wasn't. Clothing doesn't go through, so it either gets disintegrated by the time bubble or left behind by the time bubble. Since Cameron's clothed body was sitting there in the chair (and the chair and table were there), we can rule out disintegration. She was clearly within the sphere of the time bubble when Weaver and John left, so she would have been within the sphere when John Henry left too. Yet Cameron's body was clothed and intact and John Henry's clothes were not there.
Was that a hint that he didn't actually jump ahead or was it just a gaff?
"You can't bring anything through when you come—not weapons, not clothing, nothing."
If John Henry did jump, where is his clothing? It should've been in a pile on the floor, but it wasn't. Clothing doesn't go through, so it either gets disintegrated by the time bubble or left behind by the time bubble. Since Cameron's clothed body was sitting there in the chair (and the chair and table were there), we can rule out disintegration. She was clearly within the sphere of the time bubble when Weaver and John left, so she would have been within the sphere when John Henry left too. Yet Cameron's body was clothed and intact and John Henry's clothes were not there.
Was that a hint that he didn't actually jump ahead or was it just a gaff?
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Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-04-30 01:08 pm (UTC)Weaver should have known whether the equipment was activated, from the electric meter, if not a usage log, though I concede that a usage log would compromise the TDE as an escape route.
Assuming Weaver knew that John Henry didn't jump, we can assume that Weaver jumped Connor past JDay by intentional deception. But why?
We also saw that John Henry did not prevent JDay. Is he destroyed or is he part of the problem?
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-04-30 02:36 pm (UTC)That's the part that gets me every single time I watch BtR, too. I personally think it was a gaffe, but as far as gaffes go, I've gotta say that it was a really huge one! The time-traveling Cromartie head from the Pilot was pretty wild to me too, so maybe they're just rounding out their record. XD
Assuming Weaver knew that John Henry didn't jump, we can assume that Weaver jumped Connor past JDay by intentional deception. But why?
It could be an incident of the Predestination paradox (teen!John in the future is somehow integral in the creation of independent!Weaver). Maybe Weaver wanted to sabotage Team Connor's efforts of preventing JDay (I really dislike this idea ;_;). Maybe it's part of some deal Weaver had made with Cameron in the future. (Jameron-minded folks could probably get behind that one, especially if John turns out to be dead in the future...but I don't like that one since I'm not particularly Jameron-minded. ;))
Etc. etc. etc...
I actually think this very question is the #1 reason why I keep hesitating on the JH didn't actually jump theory is the fact that the question has so many friggin' possibilities, I kinda want to protect my brain from the destructive pondering!
We also saw that John Henry did not prevent JDay. Is he destroyed or is he part of the problem?
Hmm. I personally don't believe Weaver/JH ever planned on preventing JDay, but who knows?
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-04-30 03:06 pm (UTC)Crack Theory: Skynet manages to kill Connor, followed by all of humanity. Perpetual boredom ensues. "That was dumb" ==> leads to Weaver.
Sorry about your brain .
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-04-30 05:32 pm (UTC)There should be a minimalist comic version of this, LOL!
Thank you for your concern for my brain ;) XD
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-05-01 02:27 am (UTC)hahaha... I love that.
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-05-01 02:46 am (UTC)I tend to believe Weaver when she says she was building John Henry to stop Skynet. She and John Henry are basically the metal versions of Sarah and John, so I do think they wanted to stop Skynet. I just don't think her plan works out in the end. Also, metal does not save the world in this story!
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-05-01 03:43 am (UTC)The question, then, is what do Weaver and JH want to stop Skynet from doing. I think Weaver wants to stop Skynet from trying to shackle all cybernetic organisms to its extremely strict and repressive directives. I never got the feeling that Weaver cared about humanity's survival either way herself, but maybe a compassionate Skynet (JH) is what Skynet needs to be if Weaver wants to avoid the homicidal, psychotic tyrant version.
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-05-01 07:52 am (UTC)You know, I never thought about whether Weaver would want to prevent j-day or not. She was hoarding coltan, but we don't know if she was stashing it safely in bunkers for after j-day so she could build a population of machines, if she was destroying it to prevent Kaliba from getting it, or if she was stashing it and protecting it until she could begin building cyborgs in present day. Hmm.
It could be that she's fine with j-day happening and Skynet running things for a while because then there would be a population of metal already in existence that she can just free from Skynet directives. It's clear she doesn't care one way or the other about humans anyway. She seems to view humans the way Sarah view machines: if they're useful and do what you tell them to do, she'll tolerate them. But if they cause trouble, she'll destroy them.
john Henry, on the other hand, has some sort of bond with Savannah the same way (well not the same way) that John has a bond with Cameron. The mothers see things more black and white, while the sons see more grey area. So John runs off to the future (where Weaver is going) to save(?) Cameron and John Henry stays in the present (where Sarah is) to save Savannah. See what I did there? I totally threw the JH theory at you again :P
But anyway, yeah, I do think Savannah is a primary motivator for John Henry.
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-05-01 08:26 am (UTC)Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-05-01 08:28 am (UTC)Cameron and Savannah are in both places. We'll see grown Savannah and repaired Cameron in the future, but damaged Cameron and young Savannah are in the present.
Done :)
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-05-03 03:49 am (UTC)Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-05-01 02:25 am (UTC)Assuming Weaver knew that John Henry didn't jump, we can assume that Weaver jumped Connor past JDay by intentional deception. But why?
If John Henry didn't jump, I don't think Weaver knows. If she did, it would have to mean if was a ruse to get John to jump ahead but she didn't urge John or even ask him come along. He could've stepped out of the bubble any time. And even once they got there, she ditched him pretty quickly.
I think John Henry tricked Weaver into believing he'd jumped. He could've sent an empty bubble so she'd see that the TDE had been used or maybe he just messed with the computer so it looked like it had been used.
We also saw that John Henry did not prevent JDay. Is he destroyed or is he part of the problem?
He probably is part of the problem. Even if he is rather likable, John Henry can't be the solution or the savior of humanity. I just think that goes to far against the original story. I think he's probably an inadvertent part of the problem. He'd be changed by being untethered and loaded on to a chip, so he could become glitchy or angry or whatever and I think either convinced by his brother to join forces against humanity or maybe tricked into it. Something like that.
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-05-01 07:40 pm (UTC)D:
Re: Time Travel Conundra
on 2010-05-02 01:02 am (UTC)As you'll see in my RPG post, I think John Henry let his brother talk him out of things, but either way, I don't think that Weaver meant that John Henry was the savior of mankind, so much as she meant two things:
1) If John Connor wants the assistance of the Machine Resistance, those people he asked to help him on the submarine, then he needs to cooperate with Weaver's new plan. The reason she said no the first time is the humans on that submarine were stupid fucking idiots, and she wanted to free her people her own way. So now if he wants their assistance, he needs to use John Henry and Weaver's plan.
2) If they intend to stop SkyNET prior to Judgement Day, then they must alter the code itself. As things stand now, the "brother" has no compassion, possibly because humans keep trying to kill him. If John Henry's code could overwrite OR combine with SkyNET's code, then both humans AND machines can be free.
As far as I am concerned, that is Weaver's motivation and the reason for John Henry's entire existence.